Expat life in Germany

October 6, 2007 · Filed Under Life as an Expat 

A recent post on whether Germans hate Americans by B. over at Eurotrippen got me thinking about all the different experiences I’ve had here in Germany.

First, I don’t think Germans in general hate Americans in general, but there are always going to be some people who hate some other people, whether rationally or irrationally. This being said, I have had odd encounters due to being foreign.

In Berlin, before I could speak German, a women in a bakery on Schlossstrasse claimed to not understand what I was saying as I pointed to and simultaneously asked for Brötchen, yelling “WAS??? WAS???” at me. Let’s just say I didn’t go back there again. There was also a Japanese girl in my class who wasn’t served a Bratwurst by a vendor in Mitte until she had pronounced it correctly. But other than that, I can’t think of other language-related ill-treatment.

As to getting slack for being American, I said in the comments to B.’s post, that I was yelled at by a guy in Berlin who recognized my American accent just after the Iraq War started. He wanted to know why *I* was starting this war. I just told him that I hadn’t voted for W, so he should buzz off. But that’s the only incident I can think of where I witnessed anti-Americanism.

Germans often ask me where I’m from, and after I say that I’m American, they’ll say (in German, of course), “No, where are you really from?” Uh, born and bred American, thank ya very much. This has occurred less often down here in the south, I used to get it ALL THE TIME in Berlin, Rostock and Potsdam. Sometimes they’d even say, “No, which country in the Americas?” I finally started saying that I’m a “US-Amerikanerin.” But that being said, when I lived in the US, I’d often get asked where I was born, and when I answered California, the people would get puzzled looks on their faces as they tried to work out a polite way to ask my ancestry. I’d enjoy their discomfort for a moment, then add that my mother is Thai.

I have felt like I was treated differently because of my race here. I posted about a couple encounters with neighbors in Potsdam previously. It’s funny, in Potsdam we lived in a middle to upper middle class community, and people there wouldn’t talk to me, and I was once asked in a critical way while I was out walking Charlie, whether I really lived there. Next to the neighborhood we lived in, was government housing for the poor and unemployed. I ended up making friends with the mostly unemployed, sometimes ex-con, sometimes alcoholic, but very nice Ossies that lived there. They welcomed me to their dog walking group with open arms! (Rainer was shocked that I walked off into the woods with them, but after coming along once, he decided they were really nice guys)

But, Rostock has this big rep as an anti-foreigner city, and I never experienced any mistreatment all the time I lived there. Potsdam is really where I had the most problems. Like the time when a neighbor came up to talk to me, asked where I was from, then said, “Oh, you’re one of the good foreigners,” and continued to bash the Turkish for 20 minutes. I’d just met her! Of course, Rainer once went to a hairdresser on Patriotischer Weg in Rostock and after she learned that he’d lived in the US, she asked how the Americans could have elected a man [W.] president who couldn’t read or write. I went to the same hairdresser though, and she never said anything to me.

I do know of people who had bad experiences. The Japanese girl I mentioned before, she was chased through Alexanderplatz by a group of young men who yelled things and threw apples at her. No one helped. There was a Chinese guy in my class too, who said young men threw firecrackers at him. And once I met and spoke to an African man on the S-Bahn in Berlin who told me that German women won’t talk to him, and asked if Americans were all as friendly and open as me.

In the end, I’d say that there are probably just as many xenophobic Germans as there are Americans, but perhaps the Germans are a little bit more vocal and straightforward about it.

What are your experiences?

added 8 Oct 2007: Cliff reminded me of another story, which I actually think was less anti-American and more about just being a jerk. I had a boss who brought up the difficulties in entering the US, with long waits, fingerprints and biometric passports and all. She told me that she wasn’t going to be attending any more conferences in the US because of this, which is fine, that was her choice, but then she added snidely, that it wouldn’t be any great loss to her scientifically. Now that was just unfair and why say that to an American anyway? But I think it was more about trying to rile me up personally than being against America in general.

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16 Responses to “Expat life in Germany”

  1. BiB on October 6th, 2007 9:32 pm

    I had a Brötchen incident when I first arrived in Berlin too. I pointed at and grunted what I wanted and somehow managed to ask the price. It was 33 pfennigs. The woman serving pronounced DREI UND DREIßIG very slowly and loudly and held three fingers in my face throughout the transaction. Thank god the price wasn’t more complicated.

    I haven’t had any hassle here as a foreigner, but I suppose as a boring old whitey I don’t attract much attention. Have heard plenty of bad stories of things that have happened to non-whites in Berlin though.

  2. Carol on October 6th, 2007 9:58 pm

    Once I make it clear that I think W is an ignorant asshole and that I didn’t vote for him and that he no longer represents America (which I found myself doing pre-emptively)… well, people seem to back off.

    I’m looking forward to the day when we have an intelligent president who respects both America’s and the world’s citizens. Maybe then, all this crap will lighten up!

    Carol

  3. cliff1976 on October 6th, 2007 10:15 pm

    Oh man, I’ve had my share of gripes, for sure:

    at work Occasionally I still see the consultant weenie floating around the office at work who insulted me, his customer, and I get all scowly-faced again, just thinking about it.

    at our Hausfest with our neighbors I don’t ask Germans to answer for their (great-)grandfathers’ (mis)-deeds; you’d think they’d at least cut me some slack with regard to The Sheeple back home.

    What I find really sad is that things don’t appear to change much or quickly from one generation or continent to the next. Members of my own family send me hateful, inflammatory emails about illegal immigration that feature animated GIF images of border-hopping, barb-wire-tip-toeing Mexicans which would have impressed Göbbels.

    So yeah, I’ve got my beefs with Germans, but also Americans. And let me tell you about the fridge smells I have to endure thanks to the Frenchmen at work.

    I suppose I’m just ornery at people.

  4. vailian on October 6th, 2007 11:48 pm

    I haven’t had any discrimination here (although I did have some issues in England…). But I do get very irritated reactions when I class myself as a Gastarbeiter, which is really what I am (a foreign guest worker) because to them Gastarbeiter are smelly, ignorant turks or Algerians. I say, OK, but what am I then? And they don’t really have an answer.

  5. tqe / adam on October 7th, 2007 1:31 am

    I’ve not personally had any issues as an American living in Germany, but I have heard complaints from Indians (as in India) living in Germany. In my 3+ years here, I’ve never been asked for my passport on the street, while one girl from India was asked for it within her first three weeks, and now always carries it around.

  6. Gardner on October 7th, 2007 1:58 am

    This is a tough topic. What is considered anti-american sentiment and what is political banter?

    There are some interesting trends though that I blogged about last week after I found an article in the Spiegel magazine (English version). 

    http://tamaraingermany.blogspot.com/2007/09/american-german-relations.html

  7. Tammy B on October 7th, 2007 7:40 am

    When I am int eh U.S., I still get asked “Where are you from?” and it took me a while to realize that they thought I was a foreigner. I just chalked that up to having picked up an accent from my many international friends.
    I wondered if you had any experiences in Germany because of your appearance. I, generally, just come off as a stupid German because I look ‘German’ but can’t understand anyone! I have noticed some east Asian friends here had some more negative experiences than me. As the white American, I mostly pass as acceptable. I think the draw of American pop culture helps. They may not like our politics, but they like our stuff. (ipods, starbucks, etc)

  8. Michael Proulx on October 7th, 2007 9:03 am

    Nice post Christina!

    On the flip-side of this question, my last post was about a very nice experience I had with a German here. I have not really had any bad encounters that are linked to me being from the US. In fact, I cannot find anyone interested in politics to discuss it! Maybe it has something to do with the university environment, and everyone is focused on their work.

  9. rita on October 7th, 2007 11:58 am

    intersting post, christina. maybe the snooty attitude that some have shown towards you has something to do with the less ethnically diverse background of germany. i mean, we have only become a nation of immigrants over tha past 40 years or so. most people wouldn’t even consider today’s germany a nation of immigrants.

    as soon as one doesn’t fit in “visually” they *must* be foreigners. regeardless whether they have been bred, born and raised in germany and don’t speak a word of, let’s say, khosa. so as soon as someone with a different ethinc background than central european starts talking in german and (gasp!) knows her grammar and makes sense, it throws us off track. :D

    don’t let the snooty people get you down though! obviously they have never traveled the world and bumped into any one of those other 6 billion people on this planet.

  10. barbara on October 8th, 2007 8:32 am

    Hi Christina,
    These are subjects that touch all expats; the countries and mentalities may change, but ignorance and sometimes hate is present everywhere.
    My experiences are in France.

    I could write tons about it, but I can also relate to the “guessing game”… OMG, the number of times I’ve been asked where I’am from. Yes, the sometimes puzzled looks.
    As Christina knows, I’am like herself; half Asian & born in the States.
    Some of them might have been expecting Americans to all be blond & blue eyed !!
    Some of the a lot of the French I have met have a hard time placing where “Hawaii”.

    On the whole, I have not had any major problems, and no one points the finger at me as being “The American” of the quarter.
    Few problems when I’am out in Paris, too.
    In the quarter, I’am just another resident and many people here are very nice.

    Interesting post, Christina ;)
    You take care.

  11. Lynda on October 8th, 2007 9:23 am

    I also had a Brötchen incident when I first went to live in Munich - I had spent 4 months in Koln and thought I was clever enough to at least order bread - of course it was a disaster and I got a really horrid shrug of the shoulders (even though it was patently obvious what I was pointing at) - in the end I turned heel and went home, burst into tears as soon as the husband returned from work… and he started to laugh so hard I nearly killed him - SEMMEL!!! my love - he said. It was a bad start to my time in Munich.. lol there were a few other episodes later down the path. I find now that my german is so good that I get no attitude at all (except the dumb blonde at frankfurt airport that spoke about me in german to her friend (I had been speaking english to the children) when I was complaining about my lost stroller… she got a serve of german that knocked her off her high heels!!

    I know that many many older germans struggle with the changes that have happened in their society in the past 15 years - they feel threatened by the new and unknown… this seems to be working its way down to the younger generation and when you mix that with high unemployment it = dynamite. I lived for 2 years in Mumbai and rest assured, I had never experience racism until I was one white face amoung a billion indian faces. I hope to always retain how that felt..

    Sorry to waffle on - really interesting (and sad) topic. I left a comment on Eurotrippen’s blog too - thanks for the link.

  12. ChristinaG on October 8th, 2007 1:07 pm

    @BiB: Seems the Brötchen incidents are pretty common!

    @Carol: Let’s hope that happens in 2008! (Please no Fred Thompson!!!)

    @Cliff: I totally get what you mean. I can get just as annoyed with “Americans” as with “Germans.” Actually, reading your posts reminded me of a work incident that I’m going to add to the post.

    @vailian: I’ve had that too. Germans have complained to me (when I was working) about foreigners taking all the jobs. I’d tell them that (1) Hello! I’m a foreigner and you’re saying this to me, and (2) we had several open positions in my department and no job candidates!

    @adam: I’ve never been asked for my id on the street (only when picking up packages), but I do carry my passport with me at all times, just in case.

    @gardner: I read that article when you first posted it and found it really interesting. And as for what is considered anti-american and what is political banter, I think a similar question is, what is ill-treatment because of race or nationality and what is just normal behavior that Germans practice amongst themselves as well, but that us expats aren’t used to? Is it a “perception is reality” (that’s for Cliff) issue?

    @tammy b: I think there are some people who only think of America as black and white and forget about all the other peoples there.

    @michael proulx: Thanks Michael! And I just want to say that I’ve had many many many more positive experiences with Germans than negative ones.

    @rita: I really haven’t had many negative experiences as a whole. I’d say 99% of Germans are great and totally fine towards me, it’s just that 1% that sticks out in one’s memory!

    @barbara: Thanks for adding your French experiences. I’m a bit surprised, I always felt that France was more ethnically diverse than Germany, so I figured they’d be less puzzlement. I also don’t get singled out as “The American”. but I think that has more to do with the fact that I don’t look like what some Germans think Americans look like!

    @Lynda: I still haven’t gotten used to asking for Semmel all the time and sometimes ask for Brötchen at our local bakery if I’m really sleep-deprived. I asked Rainer and he told me it should be no problem, since they’re called Brötchen in Hochdeutsch. So it sounds like your baker was really giving you a hard time, or was vision-impaired and didn’t speak Hochdeutsch! (and I cried after my Brötchen incident too)

  13. Arashi-KIshu on October 8th, 2007 4:42 pm

    Hey, sorry for hopping in too late, but I’ve also had a couple of incidents here in east Germany. In general, I feel that Germans want to be forgiven for the sins of their fathers, but they themselves still discriminate. I am regularly asked for my passport here, to prove that I am not “underage.”

    One of the worst incidents that happened to me, however, was when I was walking home from a disco at 2 in the morning last year and some teenaged kids started running after me yelling “CHina CHina!”

    Oh, and there are those punks who think they are so smart when they shout out “Ling-Ling!” or “Mai Ling” when I pass by.

  14. swenglishexpat on October 8th, 2007 5:42 pm

    Yes, a very interesting post, like others have pointed out above. I look Scandinavian, so I can pass for German, until I open my mouth. I have not had any problems, possibly beacuse I am a “good foreigner”, like somebody said above. But it is sad that some people cannot “live and let live” without showing hostility. I blame ignorance and small-mindedness.

  15. ChristinaG on October 9th, 2007 9:27 am

    @arashi-kishu: It’s never too late to hop into the discussion! I actually had something like that happen to me in Richmond, Virginia, USA, when I rode my bike past a large group of young (probably unemployed, it wasn’t a great neighborhood) black men, so I guess it’s not just the Germans.

    @swenglishexpat: When I first came to Berlin, there were two Ausländeramt offices. One for the “good” foreigners and one for the “not so good” foreigners. (At least I didn’t have to wait as long!) But I’ve heard the office structure has changed now.

  16. Donna on September 28th, 2008 1:01 am

    I too have had the Bakery experience, and a similar experience at the Post in Köln. I know these people have no clue how their attitudes affect others (at least I can hope). I have a good cry at least once or twice a month for good measure (no joke), because of the alienation I feel. What’s really fun is trying to tell a joke, as it just doesn’t work. And when my in-laws try to translate a german joke, they usually preface it with “you won’t get it, as it’s a play on words, and it doesn’t make sense in english”. Same holds true for english to german in my experience. I’m no comedian…. but I know the feeling of hearing crickets now, lol.

    I was an expat in Australia for many years, and now refer to AU as my preferred home. I absolutely LOVE it! So I do know it gets better with time, but boy o’boy…. I thought AU was hard. At least there I spoke the language. *sigh*

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